ATTN: Proud southerners

[XJ Matt 5.9 [JU]]

The fact that "proud southerners" are racists.

you were talking about civil war era...not modern times

 

[Josh [JU]]

you were talking about civil war era...not modern times

Hmm. How many Southerners are proud of their modern accomplishments?

VERSUS:

The ones we are all referring to are teh ones proud to fly the stars and bars.

 

[BillR [JU]]

The jelously resulted in increased trade tarriffs. The South was selling TONS of products to Europe and was profiting handsomely. The north wanted a piece of that action. (even though they had NOTHING to do with producing the product) The South RIGHTLY felt that they should be able to trade with whomever they wished without interference from the north. The South's biggest miscalculation was believing that England and/or France would join their cause once they were seperate from the Union. It didn't happen, and they lost the right to govern themselves and be independant.

 

[Josh [JU]]

The jelously resulted in increased trade tarriffs. The South was selling TONS of products to Europe and was profiting handsomely. The north wanted a piece of that action. (even though they had NOTHING to do with producing the product) The South RIGHTLY felt that they should be able to trade with whomever they wished without interference from the north. The South's biggest miscalculation was believing that England and/or France would join their cause once they were seperate from the Union. It didn't happen, and they lost the right to govern themselves and be independant.

Sounds like a lot more rationalizations and excuses to me, Bill.

 

[BillR [JU]]

Sounds like a lot more rationalizations and excuses to me, Bill.

wow, snappy comeback... :bangnerd:
No rationalizations needed here. It's all in the history books.
Like I said, it's better to be historically accurate than politically correct.

 

[Josh [JU]]

wow, snappy comeback... :bangnerd:
No rationalizations needed here. It's all in the history books.
Like I said, it's better to be historically accurate than politically correct.

If so, then why do you post up such conjecture as "jealousy?"

 

[Josh [JU]]

The wounds run deep when you get your ass handed to so completely.


Southerners = Yankees Bitches.

 

[chevtech [JU]]

The jelously resulted in increased trade tarriffs. The South was selling TONS of products to Europe and was profiting handsomely. The north wanted a piece of that action. (even though they had NOTHING to do with producing the product) The South RIGHTLY felt that they should be able to trade with whomever they wished without interference from the north.

So pretty much the South was making bank on slave labor, the North was forced to actually earn their living because they didn't have the free labor that came with owning slaves, this due to the fact they had decided slave labor was wrong. Sound about right? So when the South was taxed just like we tax say China (cheap labor undercutting our ability to compete) to export products in an effort to have them share an equal share of the overhead they didn't like it.


I already knew all that, and it all goes back to slavery.



Funny dat.

 

[BillR [JU]]

If so, then why do you post up such conjecture as "jealousy?"

Why else would the north demand tarriffs or taxes on something they had no right to, other than the so-called "Union"?
My point is there were many reason for the War, and pointing to slavery only ignores history. In addition, stating that anyone proud of the Stars and Bars is a racist is also not accurate in most cases. I'm proud of that fact that my ancestors (NOT slave owners BTW) stood up for their rights against an aggressor of overwhelming numbers. (and took alot more of them with us than we lost!)

 

[Josh [JU]]

Why else would the north demand tarriffs or taxes on something they had no right to, other than the so-called "Union"?

Last I checked (and its been awhile) -GOVERNMENTS, not "jealous" Northern individuals "demand" tariffs. And guess what? That was just as old then as now. Why does the government collect taxes on a vehicle *I own* when they "have no right?" -Your argument is laughable.

My point is there were many reason for the War, and pointing to slavery only ignores history. In addition, stating that anyone proud of the Stars and Bars is a racist is also not accurate in most cases. I'm proud of that fact that my ancestors (NOT slave owners BTW) stood up for their rights against an aggressor of overwhelming numbers. (and took alot more of them with us than we lost!)

Great argument....if the right they were standing up for was even halfway moral. OK, they were making money, but they weren't doing it in an ethical manner in any civilized culture. They wanted to own humans. If you're proud of that, well...ok.

 

[BillR [JU]]

So pretty much the South was making bank on slave labor, the North was forced to actually earn their living because they didn't have the free labor that came with owning slaves, this due to the fact they had decided slave labor was wrong.

THEY (the north)decided it was wrong, and thought it was their "duty" to change it. THAT is the issue. THEY had no right to dictate to a state (or several) how to run. The Constitution states that. Any right not specifically given to the federal government belongs to the States.
How about if we decided we didn't like China's policies enough that we were going to change them. Fat chance we could win a war of atrition against them! So we "let it slide". The north was in reality a bully that demanded protection money, and the South said no. We lost, but we bloodied the north's nose quite a bit before the end came. All in all, a good cause.

 

[Josh [JU]]

THEY (the north)decided it was wrong, and thought it was their "duty" to change it. THAT is the issue. THEY had no right to dictate to a state (or several) how to run. The Constitution states that. Any right not specifically given to the federal government belongs to the States.

Ummm...What was that part in the Constitution about all men being free (except those of the wrong skin color?)

 

[Josh [JU]]

We lost, but we bloodied the north's nose quite a bit before the end came. All in all, a good cause.

HA!!!

I love it. You get your ass totally handed to you, your lands and economy devastated, but you're proud you killed a few Americans.

Only a Southerner could think like that.

 

[Josh [JU]]

Your ignorance is laughable. You don't even realize when you're being mocked.

Quotes like this make it all worthwhile.

 

[BillR [JU]]

Great argument....if the right they were standing up for was even halfway moral. OK, they were making money, but they weren't doing it in an ethical manner in any civilized culture. They wanted to own humans. If you're proud of that, well...ok.

Come on Josh. Do you HONESTLY think that racisim only existed in the South? Ever heard of the Supreme Court and the Dred Scott decision? The Court stated that "no black man has any rights that a white man need respect". It wasn't (and isn't) only a Southern thing to be racist.

 

[BillR [JU]]

I love it. You get your ass totally handed to you, your lands and economy devastated, but you're proud you killed a few Americans.

It was WAY more than "a few" bro!
The north lost far more men than the South did...FACT!

 

[Josh [JU]]

Come on Josh. Do you HONESTLY think that racisim only existed in the South? Ever heard of the Supreme Court and the Dred Scott decision? The Court stated that "no black man has any rights that a white man need respect". It wasn't (and isn't) only a Southern thing to be racist.

Of course not, and you are right on about it being true today. (stepping aside, having lived in North, South, and West....the North was more racist, IMO). But clearly it was more dear to one side than the other at the time. One side willing to die for it, the other willing to make it right.

I'd also be interested in the makeup of the SC at that time.

 

[Josh [JU]]

It was WAY more than "a few" bro!
The north lost far more men than the South did...FACT!

OK, I'll fix it:

HA!!!

I love it. You get your ass totally handed to you, your lands and economy devastated, but you're proud you killed many Americans.

Only a Southerner could think like that.

I'd take heavy losses and a win over total devastation of home and a loss anyday.

 

[chevtech [JU]]

All in all, a good cause.

Yes your right to own other human beings is definitely a "good cause"

 

[Josh [JU]]

The Southerners joy in killing many Northerners is really akin to Off A Cough being proud his colts had a near perfect season. They still got their ass handed to them and went home tail between the legs when it mattered, and they still remain the laughingstock.